its coming from being treated unjustly my entire life
That’s not something in your control. What is in your control is whether you add to it, including by spreading bad vibes by being chronically miserable. Don’t be a slave to your past.
They think failure to be cruel to me proves that they are “weak” and unworthy of life.
If everyone, ever, looks like a narcissist to you then one of two things are true: a) You’re one yourself and are literally begging for that behaviour to be kept in check, or, b) you’re jaded beyond measure. Is there not a single person that doesn’t give you the creeps? You included, btw.
Is English not your first language? Because that’s not written correctly. The first clause does not relate to the second.
It isn’t, but yes it is written correctly. But the Epictetus translation I paraphrased it from is better, I agree:
As a mark is not set up for the sake of missing the aim, so neither does the nature of evil exist in the world.
What the fuck is this bullshit? And what makes you think you don’t deserve the punishment?
You don’t deserve the reaction you’re trying to coax out of me. You’re trying to elicit it so that you can be reinforced in your beliefs, so that you can continue to say “see, it’s true, everybody hates me, everyone is an enemy”. But no amount of flailing will make me hate you. Best I can do is tickle you into submission, sorry.
And, yes, my intent here is to dominate and my methods are manipulative. What’s the motive, though?
You do not know anyone’s nature but your own. You cannot assume anyone’s behavior except your own. By definition, you are entirely wrong, because your entire conception is based upon assumptions about people you’ve never met and likely never will. You are definitively the narcissist in this thread, making everything about you. You need to pull the tapeworm out of your ass.
Humanity’s common nature, beyond the last few hundred years, is actually one of mutual aid and cooperation. I’d encourage you to look into the various Peoples Histories of the various parts of the world. It is increasingly clear the more data is gathered that the current system of elevating greed, avarice, selfishness etc, is a historical outlier on a history that stretches back hundreds of thousands of years of people collectively cooperating.
Now you’re asserting more and more to me. I’ve read plenty of books, we could go through some we’ve read if you really want to. Have you read Graeber and Wengrow’s “Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity”? How about Paulo Freire’s “Pedagogy of the Oppressed”? They’re pretty popular books, I wouldn’t be surprised if you have, but if not I’d recommend them. Do you have any recommendations for me?
No, I’m not. I’m trying to teach you about your own nature, so you can correct it.
I know my nature thank you very much. And what do you mean with “correction”? Do you want me to be an asshole? You also don’t need to worry about me: I’m peaceful, not harmless. In fact, you can’t really be peaceful if you’re harmless, in that we agree I think.
The same motive all narcissists have - you’re trying to “prove” your “better” than I am to hide from your own insecurity. You’re trying to hide some secret shame from others - and you’re willing do anything, including kill, to do so.
That’s not a narcissistic motive. Narcissists feel shame when they, inadvertently, do something nice same as others feel shame when they inadvertently hurt. Their moral instincts are flipped and their function in society is to keep the rest on our toes. They’re the empty space directly around the mark so the mark is easier to see. Their purpose in life is to be a warning example. In that way they serve good.
Playing over fears is a thing every human is prone to, no matter the neurological makeup. It’s either a function of pride, to which the antidote is humility, or urgency/stress, to which the antidote is taking your time, avoiding snap judgements… or it’s foolhardiness. Courage, OTOH, is not playing over but actually overcoming fear, usually out of wisdom, the queen of the virtues, able to bring opposing instincts into mutually agreeable concord. That’s adaptation without the “mal-” in front.
And I don’t care about whatever shame the assholes put into you. Keep it to yourself, you deserve kindness regardless. The question is whether you’re willing to look beyond it and become receptive to kindness, or whether you carry it around as a shield because giving it up would invoke the ire of people you are, as I gather, no longer under the direct thumb of.
I’m not your gullible mark. I’ll worry about you as I see fit - not as you dictate.
Oh this is very interesting. I meant you do not need worry about my safety. As you seemed to be keen on “curing” me of my “naive” ways, convincing you of yours, seeing the whole world as nothing but enmity. It didn’t even occur to me that it could be read the other way around. How did you come to that interpretation?
No we don’t - I can’t even make sense of this line.
Someone who is harmless has no way to defend themselves. They will be afraid little tiny chihuahuas throwing their ire at anyone that they ever meet, considering all to be more powerful than them, that ire will be directed inside into self-hatred or outside into anger, but it’s still the same helplessness.
If you are not harmless, however, you can find safety, even in dicey situations, in your capacity to get out of them on your own terms. It’s the martial artists who is not impressed by chest thumping, and see no need to engage in that practice: If a punch flies their way they’re going to react, they can trust the back of their mind to deal with it. Any worry there might be does not need to cross the threshold of consciousness because they have achieved unconscious competence. That enables peacefulness even in a biker bar.
Human beings are incapable of being genuine to those they do not consider their equal.
Are humans fake to their pets, to their children? To their frail elders?
I have been branded infinitely beneath all others, a brand enforced by society itself.
To you, my fears would be you r asset you can use against me.
Now why would I do that. Humanity aside that’s strategically unsound: Fearful people are not at the full extent of their abilities. And if we are are to, what, hunt mammoths or some shit I’d rather have you at your best.
You choose to assert that I am less than you to dominate me,
I assert that your neurosis is less than you, that it diminishes you. Anyone trying to get you out of there does not do it to further their control over you – on the contrary, they want to see you fly and soar (or at the very least not get on their nerves). Those narcissists you speak of would rather reinforce it, because it is a leash they can lead you by. How do you clearly distinguish between those ends people aim for? “Everyone is out to get me” is not an answer to that question, it’s a cop-out, it’s avoidance.
Or, let me put this differently: If there was a single decent human being among the billions we are, and you might just by chance stumble across them one day… would you be able to tell that they’re the exception? Can you develop that skill? Is that a hypothetical you’re comfortable contemplating?
That’s not something in your control. What is in your control is whether you add to it, including by spreading bad vibes by being chronically miserable. Don’t be a slave to your past.
If everyone, ever, looks like a narcissist to you then one of two things are true: a) You’re one yourself and are literally begging for that behaviour to be kept in check, or, b) you’re jaded beyond measure. Is there not a single person that doesn’t give you the creeps? You included, btw.
It isn’t, but yes it is written correctly. But the Epictetus translation I paraphrased it from is better, I agree:
Removed by mod
You don’t deserve the reaction you’re trying to coax out of me. You’re trying to elicit it so that you can be reinforced in your beliefs, so that you can continue to say “see, it’s true, everybody hates me, everyone is an enemy”. But no amount of flailing will make me hate you. Best I can do is tickle you into submission, sorry.
And, yes, my intent here is to dominate and my methods are manipulative. What’s the motive, though?
Removed by mod
You do not know anyone’s nature but your own. You cannot assume anyone’s behavior except your own. By definition, you are entirely wrong, because your entire conception is based upon assumptions about people you’ve never met and likely never will. You are definitively the narcissist in this thread, making everything about you. You need to pull the tapeworm out of your ass.
Removed by mod
Humanity’s common nature, beyond the last few hundred years, is actually one of mutual aid and cooperation. I’d encourage you to look into the various Peoples Histories of the various parts of the world. It is increasingly clear the more data is gathered that the current system of elevating greed, avarice, selfishness etc, is a historical outlier on a history that stretches back hundreds of thousands of years of people collectively cooperating.
Removed by mod
Now you’re asserting more and more to me. I’ve read plenty of books, we could go through some we’ve read if you really want to. Have you read Graeber and Wengrow’s “Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity”? How about Paulo Freire’s “Pedagogy of the Oppressed”? They’re pretty popular books, I wouldn’t be surprised if you have, but if not I’d recommend them. Do you have any recommendations for me?
I know my nature thank you very much. And what do you mean with “correction”? Do you want me to be an asshole? You also don’t need to worry about me: I’m peaceful, not harmless. In fact, you can’t really be peaceful if you’re harmless, in that we agree I think.
That’s not a narcissistic motive. Narcissists feel shame when they, inadvertently, do something nice same as others feel shame when they inadvertently hurt. Their moral instincts are flipped and their function in society is to keep the rest on our toes. They’re the empty space directly around the mark so the mark is easier to see. Their purpose in life is to be a warning example. In that way they serve good.
Playing over fears is a thing every human is prone to, no matter the neurological makeup. It’s either a function of pride, to which the antidote is humility, or urgency/stress, to which the antidote is taking your time, avoiding snap judgements… or it’s foolhardiness. Courage, OTOH, is not playing over but actually overcoming fear, usually out of wisdom, the queen of the virtues, able to bring opposing instincts into mutually agreeable concord. That’s adaptation without the “mal-” in front.
And I don’t care about whatever shame the assholes put into you. Keep it to yourself, you deserve kindness regardless. The question is whether you’re willing to look beyond it and become receptive to kindness, or whether you carry it around as a shield because giving it up would invoke the ire of people you are, as I gather, no longer under the direct thumb of.
Removed by mod
Oh this is very interesting. I meant you do not need worry about my safety. As you seemed to be keen on “curing” me of my “naive” ways, convincing you of yours, seeing the whole world as nothing but enmity. It didn’t even occur to me that it could be read the other way around. How did you come to that interpretation?
Someone who is harmless has no way to defend themselves. They will be afraid little tiny chihuahuas throwing their ire at anyone that they ever meet, considering all to be more powerful than them, that ire will be directed inside into self-hatred or outside into anger, but it’s still the same helplessness.
If you are not harmless, however, you can find safety, even in dicey situations, in your capacity to get out of them on your own terms. It’s the martial artists who is not impressed by chest thumping, and see no need to engage in that practice: If a punch flies their way they’re going to react, they can trust the back of their mind to deal with it. Any worry there might be does not need to cross the threshold of consciousness because they have achieved unconscious competence. That enables peacefulness even in a biker bar.
Are humans fake to their pets, to their children? To their frail elders?
How much do you yourself enforce that brand?
…never mind you just answered that.
Removed by mod
Now why would I do that. Humanity aside that’s strategically unsound: Fearful people are not at the full extent of their abilities. And if we are are to, what, hunt mammoths or some shit I’d rather have you at your best.
I assert that your neurosis is less than you, that it diminishes you. Anyone trying to get you out of there does not do it to further their control over you – on the contrary, they want to see you fly and soar (or at the very least not get on their nerves). Those narcissists you speak of would rather reinforce it, because it is a leash they can lead you by. How do you clearly distinguish between those ends people aim for? “Everyone is out to get me” is not an answer to that question, it’s a cop-out, it’s avoidance.
Or, let me put this differently: If there was a single decent human being among the billions we are, and you might just by chance stumble across them one day… would you be able to tell that they’re the exception? Can you develop that skill? Is that a hypothetical you’re comfortable contemplating?