Zelensky admits Ukraine does not have military strength to reclaim lost territories from Russia - eviltoast
  • granolabar@kbin.melroy.org
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    1 day ago

    Well Ukraine got worn out over last 2 years with spotty western support and weird restrictions on weapons usage.

    This is where the west wanted Ukraine. So here we are.

    Russia is weakened so west and US got what they wanted it so now we are ready to do a deal.

    Nobody will ever give up nukes after this and many countries are going to be getting their nukes in order as that is the only way to properly secure sovereignty and territorial integrity.

    Coupled with Israel behavior undermining “rules” based international order, this is the brave new world we got.

    Cheers.

    • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 day ago

      [nukes are] the only way to properly secure sovereignty and territorial integrity

      As North Korea had correctly identified early and worked towards diligently to protect their people.

    • Davel@lemmy.mlOP
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      This is where the west wanted Ukraine. So here we are.

      Russia is weakened so west and US got what they wanted it so now we are ready to do a deal.

      What the West wanted ideally was the balkanization and re-neocolonialization of Russia. https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/17/the-west-is-preparing-for-russias-disintegration/

      The “weakening” of Russia is what they considered “second prize,” but they didn’t even get that, because Russia is now stronger. The sanctions have backfired. Russia has severed its ties with the “garden” and strengthened its ties to the “jungle.”

      • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        Unlikely. If the west was pushing to destroy Russia they would have provided Ukraine with adequate arms to do so. They deliberately created a drawn out long conflict. Whether Russia has been weakened as they hoped is debateable. It does not yet appear so.

        • PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml
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          15 hours ago

          They wanted to destroy Russia economically, not militarily, you know, the usual “bog them in forever war and sanction them to death because we control the world finance systems” and it had a good chance of success, but they miscalculated since Russia relations with China and global south in general proven to be much more robust. It was also first time after 1991 so many countries just told US “no” when they demanded another country be destroyed economically. As result BRICS managed to build their own alternative for US controlled finance system, which is pretty ad hoc by now, but it already works and is being strenghtened.

        • lorty@lemmygrad.ml
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          Their industry has been slowly decaying over the years and can’t adequately supply Ukraine in a long, drawn out conflict without jeopardizing their own defense. The amount of equipment Ukraine received at the first few months of the conflict was staggering, but most of it was from stockpiles built over years. Russia ramped up their industry a lot during the war and is outproducing the west, so it’s no wonder they are winning.

          • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            Not really. Only recently have they started sending modern long range missiles and semi modern fighter jets to Ukraine. Those were available since the start.

        • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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          1 day ago

          The west has to balance providing adequate arms and not getting bombed/invaded themselves. They only do invasions on enemies they think can’t defend themselves.

          They thought the sanctions would do to Russia what it did to Libya, Venezuela, Iraq, and many others, and that they’d only need to drag this one out to win it on the economic rather than the military front. That obviously hasn’t worked, so rather than broker the peace talks a majority of Ukrainians want, they’re escalating because they don’t know how to do diplomacy, they only know how to do extortion. They’re talking about “negotiating from strength” ffs.

          • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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            1 day ago

            Only permawar provides for the most weapon sales. The sanctions on Russia was tighter colonization of EU by the US. To the last Ukrainian is opportunity to buy Ukraine assets for cheap, and making the war last longer, means cheaper, and more EU subservience.

            • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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              1 day ago

              Also more debt. The same people whining about the fictitious Chinese debt trap are really silent about how the US are lending billions to Ukraine so they can finance these arms deals, we know what these countries do once you can’t repay, they confiscate all your shit.

          • geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml
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            1 day ago

            If Russia was ever truly pushed to the brink Russia could always nuke Ukraine. There is no real way to win against nukes besides giving Ukraine their nukes back because America did not hold up their end of the nuclear deal.

            • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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              1 day ago

              Maybe don’t give nukes to a fucking nazi government in hopes that’ll bring peace? Why not start with diplomacy and iterate from there?

    • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      The restrictions aren’t “weird”. These are weapons that need satellite guidance from NATO satellites and stockpiled at NATO bases.

      If they started being fired en masse, Russia would need to disable those satellites, and the US only instigated this war to weaken Russia and prevent it from arming anti imperialist resistance groups in the middle east. It’s not interested in actually fighting, because fighting an organized army is much harder, much costlier, and carries more risk than invading Asian countries with peasant militias.

      • Hawke@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        US only instigated this war to weaken Russia

        Well, that’s certainly a perspective.

        Really unclear how the US forced Russia to invade, you’ll have to explain that part I think.

        • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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          1 day ago

          The war exists only because Russia’s conditions for peace are not accepted. No NATO (or missile bases) in Ukraine. There was a very patient peace agenda by Russia, signed by the west and Ukraine btw, before SMO.

          • Hawke@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            The war exists because Russia invaded. You can’t have a “peace agenda” or “conditions for peace” until someone started a war in the first place, and that was Russia.

            • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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              The war only started in 2021 if you ignore the fact that fascist Nazi militias were shelling civilians and civilian infrastructure in eastern Ukraine for 7 years before Russia launched its SMO. There were two ceasefire agreements signed (Minsk 1 & Minsk 2) that these militias consistently violated. If you don’t believe me, you’re welcome to see for yourself. A French journalist documented this and spoke to residents about the ongoing conflict. CW: death and devastation.

              • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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                1 day ago

                Get ready to be told that Russia should just walk all their troops back and that’d be peace achieved (bombing in the Donbas doesn’t count, apparently, because it’s the good Nazis doing it), like a fucking toddler’s concept of geopolitics.

                • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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                  1 day ago

                  History ended in 1991 and started up again 30 years later. Everything in between doesn’t count.

            • humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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              I don’t believe your position can be honest. It basically says all bar fights are started by the one throwing first punch, no matter what threats are made. All US media and CIA subterfuge to corrupt democracies is not done for the benefit of the democracies. War on Russia is largely a US war on its allies, and tolerance for the concept that Russia is not forced to defend its existence, or have red lines where peace can thrive, just shows how corrupt and fooling democracy can be. Not that Ukraine is a democracy.

        • Grapho@lemmy.ml
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          1 day ago

          Because he’s a senile genocidal fuck whose only restraints for provoking a nuclear war was that he might lose an election he already lost.