Lmao is russia gonna be even worse than China? At least China still somewhat have access to foreign websites (emphasis on the “somewhat”).
Edit: Also, aren’t telephones still working? Just call a friend/relative outside of the country to obtain information, or ask someone who has a friend/relative out of the country and ask for information on your behalf.
Have they banned mail yet? Try using mail lol.
They’re gonna need to do a nationwide lockdown to stop all information.
(Funny thing is, no matter how hard China tries, I (I’m in the US) can still call relative in China and tell them all the info that the CCP has hidden from them)
Also, aren’t telephones still working? Just call a friend/relative outside of the country to obtain information, or ask someone who has a friend/relative and ask for information on your behalf.
In Putin Russia friend calls you! And by friend I mean your neighbor, and by call you I mean call the police to arrest you because you have dared to ask for information. Straight to the gulag for you!
That’s not how it works really. In Putin’s Russia, just like in every similar regime in history, most people talking free-minded stuff or even protesting don’t get punished in any way. But some random ones do get jail sentences with the whole list of convictions. And those sentenced are sometimes not even very keen in their views, that’s what helps the effect. You know that anything you say on political subjects can be used against you, and it will be random and unjust, because a lot of people say the same and don’t get hit with the proverbial brick of Russian law enforcement. So as a result some people talk all they want and some people are afraid of political subjects being even touched upon in their presence.
The former group existing doesn’t really hurt the regime. The latter group existing helps it. And they talk very little to each other on political subjects, which is the most useful result - another category of separation.
The whole point of Putin’s psychological strategy against Russians is in making a lot of categories of separation and reasons for apathy. It doesn’t rely on any beliefs being instilled or any active support being called upon. Just that nobody believes anything or does anything.
That’s optimal for preserving power, and support is replaced with enormous strategic resources, but as we can see, those resources are not enough. Still, I think it’ll be many years till that regime falls like Syrian one just did, and yes, just like in Syria, it may fall not to the most pleasant people.
The smart ones all know how to use VPNs as well. They know what’s up.
Crazy thing is they only need to control the masses who are mostly uneducated or don’t care enough to figure out what’s going on. Turns out that even the USA has a massive group of the latter type.
No offense but this is incredibly short sighted and you’re assuming the average person seeks out new information. We really don’t and are more exposed to it in our daily lives of consumption.
In 5, 10, 15 years it will increasingly become a problem being cut off from the outside world. Even now many believe the propaganda
Yeah. My parents always calls and talk to my aunts and uncles in China. I mean you can say things like “Xi Jingping is stupid” and nothing would happen, but if you say “So lets kill Xi Jingping” that’d gonna get you in trouble (at least, my relative in China would, I’d be safe in the US).
Basically, the reason is, China still need to conduct trades and bussiness with the world, so they allow some level of freedom to keep people happy, but wechat groups shitting on Xi is gonna mysteriously disband. (people aren’t gonna even gonna get arrested unless you’re the group creator) A one to one conversation isn’t gonna cause a protest unlike internet forums or group chats, that why (at least, why I think) they don’t care about phone calls.
People have a misconception that China is nazi Germany, or East Germany, but its not that bad. (I mean its not “great” but its not “nazi germany”, you get what I’m saying?)
Edit: Although, if something happened and there were to be nationwide protests in China, I’d bet they’ll cut off phone calls and make an excuse like “riotors sabotaged the cell towers” or some BS like that.
Edit 2: Fun fact: Vietnam doesn’t even block Google, the last time I checked. Some youtuber went to Vietnam and Google works somehow.
I don’t know. My relatives in China are like far away from there, so there no information to obtain. Chinese search engines and news sources doesn’t show anything. Basically, information about Tibet and Xinjiang are almost nonexistent in China.
So the only thing I know are from western sources, so I have basically the same amount of information as you have.
I mean its just speculation, but I haven’t seen any evidence of skeletons or like a mass grave (honestly too depressed to do deeper research on this topic, so let me know if you have reputable sources), so my uneducated guess is some sort of mass detention center/prison on anyone suspected of being being a “separatist”, so like US racial profiling against black people in pre- civil rights time period, but instead here its with China and Uigiurs (and other ethnic minorities).
I don’t think its a mass killing, just a mass “re-education” (aka: brainwashing) prison. Hopefully my assumptions are correct, I mean its still terrible, but mass killings would break my heart way more than just “re-educcation”.
But this is all speculation since information is so limited.
So I have been in Xinjiang, specifically Urumqi in 2010, about a year after there were local tensions and riots (I didn’t know about the riots until after I returned home). It was summer and I saw police in full riot gear, in APCs in groups of 10-15 at a time patroling the city. Not roadblocks everywhere, but multiple such patrols. I still felt safe (as a westerner, its super safe).
So there were clear, heavy local tensions. Now you are right about the news we here are obviously one sided. You have to take some critical thoughts about what is likely happening. However inter province travel requires you to present passport when buying a ticket. It’s not really a sign of a free and fair society.
I don’t keep up with internal Chinese politics beyond vaguely being interested in HK, but seeing what happened there you can make a fair assumption that in the mainland things would be harder for folks who don’t fall in line.
I mean, its not really like illegal, its more of, every platform would censor comparisons of Xi Jingping and Winnie the Pooh. Just the Winnie the Pooh isn’t even censored, only comparisons to Xi Jingping are censored.
Just don’t bring a poster of the comparison of Xi and Pooh in public and it’s probably fine. You can probably be safe making jokes with friends/family in private spaces, but don’t be criticizing the government in a restaurant, in case people overhear it, especially not criticisms of the central government in Beijing or Xi Jingping.
People have a misconception that China is nazi Germany, or East Germany, but its not that bad. (I mean its not “great” but its not “nazi germany”, you get what I’m saying?)
This was the tremendous stupidity of Nazi Germany - open violence and cruelty against dissidents (and, of course, Jews and other people deemed fine to murder). Ideologically motivated, but counterproductive. They had that vampire “blood for the blood god” aesthetic, if you look at Nazi-time crests, it can be seen very well too, sort of a Satanist state.
Actually every sane totalitarian regime in existence feels not great, but not Nazi Germany.
How’s this doxxing? Theres are more than 5 million Chinese Americans just so you know, many of them has a relative in China. People talk to relative often, this is not some secret. I could be any one of 5 Million people, that’s hardly doxing. There are over 8 Million people in NYC, is it doxing for someone to say they are from NYC? When you talk about millions of people, the idea of “doxxing” doesn’t even make sense.
It’s not about restricting information. It’s not a problem in Russia really.
It’s about simplifying surveillance, so that in some civil war scenario the Internet connectivity were still there, but only the controlled and monitored kinds of it.
And also it is - it really is - about preserving connectivity if backbone cables going into Russia from abroad get severed or shut down.
I still think all this is about civil war scenarios. Russia’s history in the last 30 years is about its elite preserving itself at the expense of geopolitical power. They are just preparing for another stage.
Lmao is russia gonna be even worse than China? At least China still somewhat have access to foreign websites (emphasis on the “somewhat”).
Edit: Also, aren’t telephones still working? Just call a friend/relative outside of the country to obtain information, or ask someone who has a friend/relative out of the country and ask for information on your behalf.
Have they banned mail yet? Try using mail lol.
They’re gonna need to do a nationwide lockdown to stop all information.
(Funny thing is, no matter how hard China tries, I (I’m in the US) can still call relative in China and tell them all the info that the CCP has hidden from them)
In Putin Russia friend calls you! And by friend I mean your neighbor, and by call you I mean call the police to arrest you because you have dared to ask for information. Straight to the gulag for you!
That’s not how it works really. In Putin’s Russia, just like in every similar regime in history, most people talking free-minded stuff or even protesting don’t get punished in any way. But some random ones do get jail sentences with the whole list of convictions. And those sentenced are sometimes not even very keen in their views, that’s what helps the effect. You know that anything you say on political subjects can be used against you, and it will be random and unjust, because a lot of people say the same and don’t get hit with the proverbial brick of Russian law enforcement. So as a result some people talk all they want and some people are afraid of political subjects being even touched upon in their presence.
The former group existing doesn’t really hurt the regime. The latter group existing helps it. And they talk very little to each other on political subjects, which is the most useful result - another category of separation.
The whole point of Putin’s psychological strategy against Russians is in making a lot of categories of separation and reasons for apathy. It doesn’t rely on any beliefs being instilled or any active support being called upon. Just that nobody believes anything or does anything.
That’s optimal for preserving power, and support is replaced with enormous strategic resources, but as we can see, those resources are not enough. Still, I think it’ll be many years till that regime falls like Syrian one just did, and yes, just like in Syria, it may fall not to the most pleasant people.
The smart ones all know how to use VPNs as well. They know what’s up.
Crazy thing is they only need to control the masses who are mostly uneducated or don’t care enough to figure out what’s going on. Turns out that even the USA has a massive group of the latter type.
What?! But 'Murica! Land of the Free!
No offense but this is incredibly short sighted and you’re assuming the average person seeks out new information. We really don’t and are more exposed to it in our daily lives of consumption. In 5, 10, 15 years it will increasingly become a problem being cut off from the outside world. Even now many believe the propaganda
Is that right, you can just like call China, no Great Phone Firewall?
Yeah. My parents always calls and talk to my aunts and uncles in China. I mean you can say things like “Xi Jingping is stupid” and nothing would happen, but if you say “So lets kill Xi Jingping” that’d gonna get you in trouble (at least, my relative in China would, I’d be safe in the US).
Basically, the reason is, China still need to conduct trades and bussiness with the world, so they allow some level of freedom to keep people happy, but wechat groups shitting on Xi is gonna mysteriously disband. (people aren’t gonna even gonna get arrested unless you’re the group creator) A one to one conversation isn’t gonna cause a protest unlike internet forums or group chats, that why (at least, why I think) they don’t care about phone calls.
People have a misconception that China is nazi Germany, or East Germany, but its not that bad. (I mean its not “great” but its not “nazi germany”, you get what I’m saying?)
Edit: Although, if something happened and there were to be nationwide protests in China, I’d bet they’ll cut off phone calls and make an excuse like “riotors sabotaged the cell towers” or some BS like that.
Edit 2: Fun fact: Vietnam doesn’t even block Google, the last time I checked. Some youtuber went to Vietnam and Google works somehow.
What has happened to the Uighurs in China?
I don’t know. My relatives in China are like far away from there, so there no information to obtain. Chinese search engines and news sources doesn’t show anything. Basically, information about Tibet and Xinjiang are almost nonexistent in China.
So the only thing I know are from western sources, so I have basically the same amount of information as you have.
I mean its just speculation, but I haven’t seen any evidence of skeletons or like a mass grave (honestly too depressed to do deeper research on this topic, so let me know if you have reputable sources), so my uneducated guess is some sort of mass detention center/prison on anyone suspected of being being a “separatist”, so like US racial profiling against black people in pre- civil rights time period, but instead here its with China and Uigiurs (and other ethnic minorities).
I don’t think its a mass killing, just a mass “re-education” (aka: brainwashing) prison. Hopefully my assumptions are correct, I mean its still terrible, but mass killings would break my heart way more than just “re-educcation”.
But this is all speculation since information is so limited.
So I have been in Xinjiang, specifically Urumqi in 2010, about a year after there were local tensions and riots (I didn’t know about the riots until after I returned home). It was summer and I saw police in full riot gear, in APCs in groups of 10-15 at a time patroling the city. Not roadblocks everywhere, but multiple such patrols. I still felt safe (as a westerner, its super safe).
So there were clear, heavy local tensions. Now you are right about the news we here are obviously one sided. You have to take some critical thoughts about what is likely happening. However inter province travel requires you to present passport when buying a ticket. It’s not really a sign of a free and fair society.
I don’t keep up with internal Chinese politics beyond vaguely being interested in HK, but seeing what happened there you can make a fair assumption that in the mainland things would be harder for folks who don’t fall in line.
Are mentions of Winnie the Pooh still forbidden tho?
Maybe online.
I mean, its not really like illegal, its more of, every platform would censor comparisons of Xi Jingping and Winnie the Pooh. Just the Winnie the Pooh isn’t even censored, only comparisons to Xi Jingping are censored.
Just don’t bring a poster of the comparison of Xi and Pooh in public and it’s probably fine. You can probably be safe making jokes with friends/family in private spaces, but don’t be criticizing the government in a restaurant, in case people overhear it, especially not criticisms of the central government in Beijing or Xi Jingping.
This was the tremendous stupidity of Nazi Germany - open violence and cruelty against dissidents (and, of course, Jews and other people deemed fine to murder). Ideologically motivated, but counterproductive. They had that vampire “blood for the blood god” aesthetic, if you look at Nazi-time crests, it can be seen very well too, sort of a Satanist state.
Actually every sane totalitarian regime in existence feels not great, but not Nazi Germany.
By all means keep doxing for likes, i’m sure they’ll appreciate it. Good for them they’re not targeted specifically (i assume).
How’s this doxxing? Theres are more than 5 million Chinese Americans just so you know, many of them has a relative in China. People talk to relative often, this is not some secret. I could be any one of 5 Million people, that’s hardly doxing. There are over 8 Million people in NYC, is it doxing for someone to say they are from NYC? When you talk about millions of people, the idea of “doxxing” doesn’t even make sense.
Also, karma doesn’t exist on Lemmy…
It’s not about restricting information. It’s not a problem in Russia really.
It’s about simplifying surveillance, so that in some civil war scenario the Internet connectivity were still there, but only the controlled and monitored kinds of it.
And also it is - it really is - about preserving connectivity if backbone cables going into Russia from abroad get severed or shut down.
I still think all this is about civil war scenarios. Russia’s history in the last 30 years is about its elite preserving itself at the expense of geopolitical power. They are just preparing for another stage.