Once EVs become the main type of vehicles sold, sellers will lower quality to ‘encourage’ you to replace them more often.
Every industry starts off like this and ends off like that.
Its muuch easier to start an EV company than a combustion one tho. Also modding of old cars into EVs is a thing. It will happen but not as extreme as with combustion ones i think. Especially because chinese ones tend to be less enshittified.
The Chinese ones tend to be less enshittified? Having just recently about how Xiaomi cars disable software updates if you change the headlights, allow me to doubt that.
The ones from smaller company can be, from what i have been told. Its kinda like with knockoff electronics products where you can get a carbon copy or better version of an arduino for a fraction of the price. You might have to look, but they exist. Here they just dont at all. With phones its pretty bad sadly but with other things you can often get dope open hardware manufactured designs of all sorts of stuff.
That may be ok for an Arduino, but for a car I’d really like to be able to get support, which may be tough with a smaller provider, unless they really use generic components and document their stuff decently, which I’d really have to be convinced about. And let’s not even get into the software support.
And I write this from my 2yo old Fairphone 4, which I plan to degoogle during the holidays, while I sit in front of my 7yo Thinkpad.
I use Arch BTW.
Edit: And my chinese vacuum cleaner runs Valetudo.
I just wanna be able to easily hack my car tbh. (Lmao “i” dont even have or want one) I want there to be car nerds like with combustion cars but for electric ones. While for normal consumers that might not be important, it is very important for the people that you hire to repair it for you. Right to repair is specifically important for repair shops. Documentation would be cool, but lets start by not putting DRM into cars to actively prevent repair.
Also CalyxOS on FP4 is great, very easy to install and no issues so far.
It’s a sign of how bad the situation is that we talk about car repairs in terms of hacking.
Documentation should be mandatory, and DRM on this stuff mostly forbidden.
For the FP4, I think I’m going to go for e/OS, because of the official Android Auto support. I want to degoogle, not root, and most other OSs require quite a bit of mess to get AA to work.
less about easy to start an EV company (honestly you can buy engines, so that’s not really the hard part; manufacturing is, as tesla found out the hard way) and more about it being easy to build an EV from almost nothing… you can ram batteries and electric motors into almost any body as you pointed out, so if a company makes junk it’s pretty easy to replace bits with whatever you like, and since electrons are electrons are electrons, your battery, motors, etc only have to kind of match
From the aricle: “If this 1.8 percent annual degradation continued in a linear fashion, after 10 years an EV would still have 82 percent of its battery capacity, much more than the 70 percent most batteries are warrantied for after eight years.”
The battery degradation isn’t linear. If the auto makers would themselves believe this, they’d give longer warranties, to encourage sales.
A 1.8%pa degradation over 10 years would be, 83.39%.
Linearising it to make it “more intuitive” I guess.
But 2%pa degradation gets you very close to the 18% over 10 years figure. 1.9649% to be more precise.
Over 20 years you are down to ~67% and ~55% at 30 years.
And upcoming EPA regs will require the 80%, 10 year claim. I think that starts for MY28? Not 100% confident on the timing
Who’d have thought not having explosions going off inside the car constantly would cause less wear and tear
I’m not surprised at all.
Almost all automakers are offering a 8 years warranty on the battery. That means who made the battery (=the one that would ultimately pay the bill if it lasts less than 8 years) is expecting an average of 15 years or more
Can you say the same for a normal engine? After 8 years it will start to give lots of problems. Oil leaking, compression problems, dirty injectors, and so on
8 years on an internal combustion engine is nothing if you preventative maintenance properly.
My newest car is 18 years old and the only thing wrong at the moment is the seals around 2 of the windows is finally leaking. All the work I’ve done is preventative maintenance and it’s got about 180k miles on it. The previous owner did the same. I put about 20k miles a year on it since I bought it.
My other car is 25 years old and it’s basically the same story except it’s passing 200k miles soon, and I’m the 4th owner. And the previous owners neglected the hell out of the poor thing. I’ve only put about 15k miles on this one.
I’m going to drive them until I can’t fix them.
While that is true for some cars, not all cars, EV or ICE, are built equally. One of my previous cars got all the preventative maintainance, but it still started to break down constantly at 120k miles (Saab 9-5 if you’re curious). The issue is that while we have a lot of reliability data for ICE cars, there isn’t much for EVs. Ideally they would have higher reliability since they are relatively more simple, but at this point we do not have long term data.
Also, and this is an article problem, not a you problem, years owned is not as helpful as miles driven. Even in EVs, the slight degradation you see YoY could be amplified by driving 50k miles in a year.
8 years on an internal combustion engine is nothing if you preventative maintenance properly.
Also depends on the type and amount of driving you do.
What’s the 8->15 year math?
Probably something to do with the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure) based on that you can calculate how long your stuff lasts and how you should schedule repairs, or in that case, how long you can provide warranty. I’d be intetested in the numbers for the jump from 8 -> 15, too
it’s a number that i pulled out of my ass but yes, it’s about annualized failure rate. If the average battery breaks after 9 years, then it means there would be a lot of free replacements under the 8 year warranty. Like for hard drives they give 3 years warranty but it’s normal to assume that it lasts 10-15 years and not break immediately after 3 years (exception: [western digital inserted a timebomb[(https://www.reddit.com/r/synology/comments/13uyk41/wd_red_pluspro_issue_drive_being_markd_as_warning/) to mark their drives as faulty via SMART as soon as the warranty is expired)
for the mitsubishi imiev most batteries are still working (different chemistry from modern ones) even if the last ones have been made in 2013
This is a bit different than MTBF like on harddrives. Batteries are usually warrantied to 80% capacity because it’s a wear thing, not a random chance of complete failure. A battery isn’t going to last twice as long as another one by chance, this is all about determining the average or worst-case operating range the battery will be in and using that to figure out a warranty period where they think all cars will fall within.
Trust me bro MTBF maffs.
