cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/27756512
(Apologies if the link doesn’t work; Google are dicks)
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Some of my fav quotes:
“Ads in an operating system that you’ve paid for from a company that owns ridiculous amounts of money is so offensive.”
“data, it’s like the new gold to people”
“I got the confidence to really jump into Linux after the Steam Deck.”
[regarding the terminal] “You just see text going across the screen, they’re working at lightning speeds.”
“I’m kissing convenience goodbye, I just want control.”
“I’m kissing convenience goodbye, I just want control."
He is in for a surprise when he realizes GNU/Linux is much more convenient than Winblows.
It’s as complicated as you make it to be, and that’s gonna vary WILDLY per person lmao
Everything is complicated if you aren’t willing to commit/learn.
If you learn how to do a complicated thing, it’s still complicated.
Arguable
I don’t think it’s really much different. What makes windows feel more convenient is that everyone generally learns how to use it first. I think if you took a person that is not familiar with either, they would be able to figure out both OS at around the same time.
at this point i have utterly forgotten how windows works and when placed in front of a computer not running linux i just get frustrated that it won’t let me do things properly
LET ME OPEN A TERMINAL AND USE REGULAR COMMANDS YOU OVERBUILT TOASTER
it really just depends on what hardware you are on. For example my Dell pribter was plug and play on windows . It took me 6 hours to get it to work on Linux.
True, meanwhile my HP printer had a hell of a time trying to work on windows much less finding an actual downlosd for the scanner tool on HP’s websitr for a printer ovrr 5 years old and on Linux I typed
yay HP,1, then I was ready to print and scan.Plus KDE discover is the convenience if the Microsoft store was actually good.
Settings are ACTUALLY in setting instead of being split between settings, control panel, individual tool auto diagnoses, powershell, and registry edits.
KDEconnect works seamlessly and I can also locate my phone if I lost it in the house.
Yep, it really just comes down to complete luck that there are drivers in the kernel for your hardware. As another example, my Lenovo Legion sucks at running Linux out of the box. The webcam is terrible, it never suspends correctly, outputting to a monitor is incredibly painful. Meanwhile my wife’s thinkpad runs popos perfectly. Even the touchscreen works.
If you go immutable then I really don’t think it is unless you need niche software
Niche software like the Microsoft suite? It all depends on the environment you use it in I think
Libreoffice is fine unless you’re doing something niche, so yes
“I got the confidence to really jump into Linux after the Steam Deck.”
I offered my son (16) to get him an “office” computer for his room so he can do homework and emails and junk. He said he felt so comfortable with Linux because of the Steam Deck and we could instead just get a nicer monitor and a docking station and he will use the Deck as a gaming machine AND office workstation whenever our main computer (also Linux) is busy
Their rough new user experience is concerning though. From what they described I suspect many of their “problems” are not actually “real”, but it doesn’t really matter because they still ended up in a scenario where they thought there were problems. How did they end up thinking that everything must be done with terminal while using Ubuntu? I know in the last ~10 years there’s been a big focus on the new user experience, so what more can be done to prevent this? My gut says there are too many online resources that are confusing new users when they try to onboard themselves - especially resources that are old, written for other distros, or written for people who just want to find the command they can copy-paste to do something.
How did they end up thinking that everything must be done with terminal while using Ubuntu?
When asking for help in a Linux sub/forum/community, the answer will generally use the terminal because it works across desktops and even distros. It’s a lot easier to give one or two commands than it is to work out what distro, what desktop, and what settings the querier has, then describe the steps necessary in that particular GUI.
This may lead to the impression that the terminal is required for day to day use of Linux.
Maybe it needs to be more obvious that there are many ways to do things in Linux, and give new users a short “learning to learn” primer on how things operate differently in Linux-land, and where/how to look online for help. There are always first-boot popups but I imagine most people are conditioned to click out of them without even reading; forcing people to confirm a couple times that they want to skip “very helpful reading” may cut down on people that play the search engine lottery on what information they use for their first steps.
Also semi-related, I hope that mainstream Linux eventually “un-stupids” computers for regular people again. I get the distinct feeling that Microsoft and Apple have, at least somewhat intentionally, imposed ‘learned helplessness’ onto average computer users. “Oh computers are magic no one knows how they work. We are the only wizards that could possibly understand them and we will sell you the solution.” Windows/OSX/iOS/etc are so locked down that people have rightfully learned over time that if they run into a problem, there really is no solution. I suspect that’s permeating into the new user experience on Linux where people will encounter one problem and throw their hands up and say “fucking computers” instead of using basic problem solving to try another approach.
eventually “un-stupids” computers for regular people again
The problem isn’t that people are dumb or don’t want to learn or whatever, it’s that the vast vast majority of them simply do not care.
They do not care what OS runs Chrome, because it doesn’t matter. They don’t care about privacy, they don’t care about ads, they don’t care about AI, they don’t care about enshittification, they don’t care that Linux or OS X might be better, it doesn’t matter.
The computer is a screwdriver, and nobody gives a shit who makes your screwdriver. Hell, a lot of Windows users don’t even know who MAKES Windows, because it’s just “the computer”.
I’d wager that Dank Pods didn’t care all that much either - or, at least didn’t until the point that something happened that DID make him care, and the real incentive here should be making people actually care that their screwdriver is shoving ads at them and stealing their data and that’s somehow worth action from them - even though literally everything you do on a computer does that now.
How you do that I do not know, but the user has to have a solid, definable, clear reason for their change that’ll get them past the transition period, or it just plain won’t happen.
How did they end up thinking that everything must be done with terminal while using Ubuntu?
Most guides on installing things or help on fixing things will offer terminal commands, so I can see how that could certainly lead to that feeling as a new user.
Also depending on the DE and stuff certain very basic obvious settings are not available in the GUI, like fractional scaling on KDE which has to be done by editing some config file first.
Where do you have to enable fractional scaling in KDE? Worked out of the box for me when I installed that recently. Sure you don’t mean Gnome?
You got the desktop wrong. KDE has fractional scaling. Gnome which the reviewer is using because he is using Ubuntu needs the editing.
Fractional scaling is available, I remember using it from the settings. There is really nothing left to be configured from console anymore, and if there is it seems to be the apps themselves that pose a problem
I love that he finally talked about it. He shortly mentioned the switch to Linux a while ago, in a gaming video, and Im excited to see if this makes Desktop Linux a bit more popular.
It’s perfectly normal I guess but I’m still not quite used to seeing so many people who don’t know much about linux talking about how they use linux.
Funny how he praises immutable Arch + KDE and then uses Ubuntu (Snaps, broken packages, themed GNOME, not immutable)
I hope he finds his way to Bazzite, Aurora or plain Kinoite, as this would suit him way better
I’m thinking he might be happier with Noridian, ZephyrOS, Sylvanix, or AetherForge.
I myself have been trying neoNova, specTRAos, and VortexLinux and they’re all pretty good.
…
All of these are made up, I think, I just can’t cope with everybody and their dog still rolling their own distros (and alternatives to GNOME 3, thank goodness for KDE), even after 25 years of observing it happen over and over again.
Those are so legit sounding I didn’t even realise until the second part of your comment those weren’t real.
Granted, I just slap kubuntu on everything because I’m used to managing ubuntu servers and like kde, so my distro knowledge is limited, but still
Poorly, Kubuntu uses the broken Plasma 5.27 for a while until the next release afaik.
Really that was kind of the plasma guys fault, but Plasma 6.0.2 or so was really stable. Perfect LTS candidate. Then the new features came in, now it is stable again (on Fedora).
I used Kubuntu and the outdated Plasma and many packages were annoying. Nowadays snaps, and removed base packages.
I didnt like very much his video. “You need the terminal to install vlc” wait what ? Ubuntu software library is here…
Also he says he will migrate to davinci resolve once he needs to, but oh boy I’ve been seeing a lot of videos about resolve on Linux and how painful it is to use (missing codecs, no pipewire support, hates Wayland …)
the Steam Deck effect.
Damn who imagined that gaming would be the topic that made the FOSS OSes relevant. I don’t agree on all that steam does but, they really nail it with the Steam deck and Steam Os.
A lot of people have steam deck and it helps realize that GNU/Linux is an amazing OS.
On the other hand Microsoft and Apple are doing their best to try to give more reasons to switch.
it’s a very successful rebrand. people Ive talked to hate linux as a concept but will use a deck
Gaming has been the only pathway to mainstream desktop since forever. I’ve been around for a hot minute and I remember that consistently, the “real Linux users” for years repeated “we don’t need gaming this is an adult OS go back to Windows and play with your toys” and then turned around and whined that no one wanted to use desktop Linux. Valve stepped in and casually created the year of the Linux desktop as a side-effect of just wanting an escape hatch for their business model. Now the casuals and elitists alike will have a better experience via the magic of Marketshare, and all it really took is not listening to people that don’t know what’s good for them.
What do you mean by an escape hatch. Valve have been messing with hardware and Linux for way longer than the Steam Deck.
“Escape hatch” specifically refers to the speculation that Valve is positioning themselves in a way that they can’t be forced into paying fees for existing on the Windows platform, and that if push comes to shove they can say they only support Linux now. This hasn’t happened yet, but it’s a strategic stance which will likely prevent it from even beginning to happen. This doesn’t have to do with the Steam Deck specifically; it was also part of their intentions with the Steam Machine and etc.
Sometime around Windows 8 Microsoft started making noises about closing the Windows ecosystem and making people buy software through their store. This would have shut things like Steam out, so Valve said “Okay, we’re going to make a Linux-based gaming platform, because we think gamers will follow us and not you. Also we’re going to create console-like gaming PCs called Steam Machines and make our own controller, because we think we can win against Xbox, too.” Microsoft didn’t lock down the platform, Steam Machines didn’t really go anywhere, but it laid a lot of the groundwork for the Steam Deck.
always has been. the one complaint ive always heard for linux is that it didnt run games and photoshop.
most games run now, and photoshop is workable on wine if you are not a professional.
Try editing HDR photos.
I need you to understand 98% of windows users (and computer users in general) don’t need or use photoshop and advanced photo editing
This isn’t about being fancy with Photoshop layering together bracketed photos - modern flagship smartphones all shoot direct in HDR. Basic edits in stuff like Apple Photos on the Mac or Google Photos take this into account.
Again: According to Adobe itself, 98% of computer users don’t use photoshop AT ALL. That includes windows users. It’s a problem only a few people have.
I literally said it has nothing to do with Photoshop - if you shoot a photo on your iPhone or Google Pixel it shoots in HDR, and then you just use the built-in editor on your PHONE, it will edit in HDR. Linux is worse than Pixel and iOS stock photo apps at photo editing. I don’t know why you’re obsessed with Photoshop.
That’s because the thread is about photoshop
What is a dankpod?
He reviews/discusses mostly audio related tech (mainly headphones) but also dabbles in more generic mainstream tech like smartphones and laptops. The past few years he’s been expressing major frustration with the likes of Microsoft and Apple and I guess for the last few months has moved all his production over to Linux rigs, and even ditched his smart phone in favour of a modern flip phone.
Also he has a car channel called “garbage time” and a drumming stream called “garbage stream.” Very funny guy who’s definitely worth a watch.
Not sure who that is, but great 👍
I think the worst way to sum up his channel is that he reviews MP3 players and bad headphones. You’d really just have to see it, he’s very funny.
I think of him as a zillenial version of Ashens.
Aussie Techmoan with Ashens for good measure.
What exact GUI controls does linux lack that windows doesn’t?
To be honest, a lot of system configuration is better done on the CLI or editing configuration files manually (see the majority of the audio stack). I like that approach way more than Windows but even the System Registry in Windows is more “GUI-like” than editing ALSA files or pam.d files manually (usually on the cli as they mostly require sudo). This scares people.
You want the most common things available in a Settings app(s) as they generally are on Gnome, KDE, Windows and Mac. If we cram too much stuff in there regular people struggle. Finding a good balance is a dilemma for most platforms. You want the less obvious stuff to be available in additional specialist “tweak” apps for more experienced users as they often are on all these platforms but sometimes less so on Linux. Then the really esoteric stuff you have to edit registry settings, conf files and plists as you do on all of them. Linux tends to provide more power and flexibility but requires reading documentation due to the diversity of config methods and locations.
A Mac user very sensibly contacted me worried about pasting a command to edit a plist into the terminal from a website they found trying to fix an issue. Nobody should be pasting commands they don’t understand into terminals. A quick search and I found the GUI toggle to do the same thing. It isn’t exclusively a Linux issue. Windows and Mac have complex operating systems underneath and equivalently powerful command line tools.
GUI config isn’t practical for hardcore linux users. It isn’t scriptable, we can’t store it in version control, it is harder to document, it is harder to use remotely. We have to appreciate that we have a growing number of users where it is worth taking a bit more time and sharing an alternative if one exists. However nobody wants to configure services in a GUI as we want to version, document and distribute this stuff and managing services in a GUI is unprofessional because you lose these things.
So wait, are we really saying it’s newsworthy every time one person switches to Linux?
When that person is a public figure I think it is news worthy. Because it won’t be one person but a handful. As I am betting alot of people who follow them will want to try it out as well.
This is advertising 101.
Downside is if the public figure has a bad experience it will discourage many people from not even trying.
You really should check this guy out tho. He’s heaps fun to watch!
This entire video is gesturing hands in front of an apple computer. So fun!
I guess you had to be there, he has some very fun videos. His garbage time videos are a lot of fun if you like watching people mess around with shit boxes. And if you’re into drums, he has the drum thing too.
I guess if you’re boring and like watching others play games you could just play yourself. There’s hello, I’m gaming. He tries to make it more interesting but it’s gaming so.
The best way to encourage adoption is to be miserable as fuck about every topic and event.
