Parents Sue Gaming Companies Over ‘Video Game Addiction’, Because That’s Easier Than Parenting::Video game addiction. Sigh. Big sigh, even. Like, the biggest of sighs. We’ve talked about claims that video game addiction is a documentable affliction in the past, as well as the pushback that claim has received from addiction experts, who have pointed out that much of this is being done to allow doctors to get…
Yeah let’s just disregard the prevalence of gambling mechanics deliberately intended to induce addiction in minors to juice them for their parents’ cash.
Exactly. There’s a lot more nuance than just ‘oh video game good, can’t control addiction, bad parents’.
True but parents have a responsibility to look at the game before letting their children play it. Should the mechanics exist? No. But should the parents look into the game beforehand? Yes
How realistic is this though especially when certain mechanics get unlocked later in the game? The fact that these micro transactions, loot boxes, and everything else only exist to enrichen a few select people at the expense of everyone playing the game, it makes it hard to feel sympathetic toward these companies.
This isn’t viable because the systems these companies use to get the kids gambling is not obvious, even to a watchful adult. This is by design. Companies are also not obligated to give any information parents can use to identify this. Lastly, a lot of these games are free to get into, so the parents have no reason to know/ find out their kid is playing fortnite for example.
Again, these aren’t circumstance, they are deliberate design choices to skirt the law and prevent potential action to stop it early.
True but parents have a responsibility to look at the game before letting their children play it. Should the mechanics exist? No. But should the parents look into the game beforehand? Yes
Switch the word ‘game’ with the word ‘drug’ and the word ‘play’ with the word ‘use’, and your comment still reads the same.
We still outlaw addictive drugs.
I highly doubt I will have the time to try all the new research drug-games my children acquire access to. Better stick to first party Nintendo games-drugs.
In all seriousness, PBS kids apps on mobile go hard, work on any device, and are fairly educational while being easy to use and fun enough to hold attention while being completely FREE.
We’ve paid for ABC mouse but the whole fuckin thing reeks of slot machine pokie stimulus while the puzzles and games crash often. The only thing that 100% works all the time is the store to exchange your “tickets”
Abc mouse is the highest rated most teacher recommended app and it’s fucking awful.
My 3 year old has gotten way more out of free software than any pay software that’s littered with addictive BS.
I would recommend:
GCompris
Khan academy kids
Learn to read Duolingo ABC
PBS anything
Two things.
First, teenagers are also children, and every product that you describe would not fit them, those are more for the very young.
Second, we’re talking about designing the game in such a way that it provokes the brain in the same way a drug would, in essence being a drug itself.
Comment does not read the same at all, and two of the most addictive drugs, alcohol and nicotine, are legal.
Now if you’d said “we still outlaw addictive drugs FOR KIDS”, you’d be right.
Switch the word ‘game’ with the word ‘drug’ and the word ‘play’ with the word ‘use’, and your comment still reads the same.
We still outlaw addictive drugs.
Comment does not read the same at all,
Well, let’s see…
True but parents have a responsibility to look at the drug before letting their children use it. Should the drug exist? No. But should the parents look into the drug beforehand? Yes
They read the same to me. Both of them are about parents watching what a child does (gaming or drugs) and having responsibility over the child, which no human being can watch another one 24/7 successfully (even people in prison get murdered).
and two of the most addictive drugs, alcohol and nicotine, are legal.
And children are not allowed to purchase those, because it’s harmful for them.
We, as a society, help the parents look out for their child by making laws to protect them.
Do we though? Alcohol the most commonly used addictive drugs is allowed for adults and even children in many states as long as the adults approve and do it in in private residences.
Parents need to be better about paying attention to games. I remember telling my aunt about a game my 10 year old cousin wanted. She was horrified and said absolutely not. She bought it for him when he asked when they were in the store because she doesn’t take any time to pay attention to game They’re for kids. Even though games are clearly marked with any objectionable material. She “blindsided” by what was in the game when her son booted it up dispite the game be rated as mature, marking objectionable things and me giving her a play by play.
There are a lot of additive things that we expect parents to use their judgment on. Sugar for example. Until someone is talking to me about how we need a bad on soda and BS like that because parents can’t be expected to parent their kids about it, I don’t really care about the most optional of activities that is games. Children have extremely limited access if their parents don’t allow it. Theu buy the phones/tables/game consoles and robust parental controls have existed for a while.
Kids can be addicted to all sorts of things and it’s still on the parents. Because it’s technology we for some reason stop believing parents can do a thing. Oh however would the person who controls the internet ans the devices control their child’s access to social media (another one I see whining about) and video games. As a parent myself, I’m just under the impression that at least watching in my circle, the parents who don’t aren’t paying attention or don’t actually care that much, they just don’t like the outcome judgment.
Alcohol the most commonly used addictive drugs is allowed for adults and even children in many states as long as the adults approve and do it in in private residences.
Not to get dragged down into a IANAL argument, but children purchasing alcohol though is not legal.
And what you described is adults helping children get around the law.
The law still exists.
I am acknowledging the issue. However, how would a kid have money to spend on games? When I was little, I would not have been able to participate because there was no debit card linked to any of the used accounts.
You’d be surprised at the amount of kids that “steal” their parents’ credit card to buy in game stuff.
Yes parents need to parent their kids first and foremost. However, we can’t keep just giving video game companies a pass for intentionally making their games addictive. When they’re literally hiring psychologists to pinpoint target their games for a child’s brain, that’s also a problem. Both need to be addressed.
I also want to point out that a lot of these games purposefully misclassify themselves in the AppStore. Meaning if you are a parent and you say “I want my kid to have 1-2 hours of game time, but all research tools are allowed all the time” Some games will report themselves as “Information and Reading” to get around settings. I find oftentimes the more garbagey the game the more likely it will do that.
This isn’t shitty parenting, companies are intentionally creating addictive mechanics in games. Instant gratification causes a release of dopamine, which keeps the person playing over and over again. It’s the reason why people “grind”.
They’re virtual Skinner Boxes. If you don’t know what that is, I suggest looking up the term and B. F. Skinner himself.
Parental controls are a thing on all of these systems aren’t they? If not they should be.
They are, though to be fair they are usually very difficult and confusing to use, and in the case of Sony child accounts cannot be turned in to full accounts down the line so any purchases would have to be lost to enable a now adult to control their own account. 1st parties could do a hell of a lot better.
Aren’t a lot of current games built with gambling mechanics built in? Is that not done with the intention of wanting a person to keep playing and buying? I agree parents should be policing their children’s activity, but these companies shouldn’t get a pass for creating the fire people burn themselves on.
Purged by creator
Exactly. These are carefully designed to drip-feed dopamine rewards and keep maximizing “engagement” to maximize resultant profit, or at the very least, minimize the time the user spends doing anything else (including playing a competitor’s game).
Parents barely stand a chance. In child education lit, we’re still relying on old 90s tropes of “don’t let your kid sit in front of the TV too long” and “no more than two hours, preferrably maxed at one hour, for screentime of any screen per day”.
“Do you know where your kids are?” has been replaced by “have your kids gone outside today?”
I don’t want to be all old man yells at cloud, but back in my day popular games were played a lot because they were primarily enjoyable for the story, the achievement of completing a particular level or boss, playing against friends, etc. And sure, you’d have the odd bad parent trying to claim their kid was addicted to Counterstrike 1.6, but it was broadly speaking nonsense. The vast majority of games were offline, or had very limited online modes built around direct competition with other players (FPS, sports games, etc), and publishers would get all their money from the initial sale, with only a few games having expansion packs, most notable The Sims.
But in the early 2010s a few things changed:
- broadband internet became ubiquitous in markets with high levels of existing gamers
- distribution of games swapped from physical media to downloads
- ‘everyone’ had a pretty powerful computer in their pocket making it much more accessible
- a bunch of people in the industry started reading about positive psychology - the idea that you can create habits through rewards - and apply them to video games to increase playtime
- those mechanics turned out to be very powerful in driving particular user behaviours, and started to be targeted at monetisation models - and so we got loot boxes, etc
So we went from a situation where video games were fun for the same reasons traditional games, or sports, are fun, to one where many video games include a lot of gambling mechanics in their core gameplay loops - loot boxes being the obvious one, but any lottery-based mechanic where you spend real money counts - in an industry with no relevant regulation, nor age limitation.
It is definitely possible for people to get addicted to these mechanics, the same way people can get addicted to casino games, or betting on horse racing, especially when for some games that is literally what the developer wants.
“Parents Sue Cigarette Companies Over ‘Tobacco Addiction’, Because That’s Easier Than Parenting”
When a company makes a product they don’t just KNOW is harmful, but BECAUSE it’s harmful, and they’ve ENGINEERED it to be harmful, for the sake of profit, it ceases to be solely about parenting.
Honestly I agree with your sentiment with regard to video games but not with tobacco. By this point, everyone knows tobacco is bad for you. If you choose to use and get addicted to it, that’s just you exercising your bodily autonomy.
For sure, but that doesn’t mean we’re cool with marketing it to kids.
There’s absolutely a level of addictive manipulation in some games targeted towards children, but on the other hand, you are responsible for making sure your child doesn’t participate in their systems. Fault on both parties.
Who’s educating the parents on what’s going on in the games? The casinos? The slot machines? The sports betting apps?
Where do the average learn about these things?
All well and good if you are fairly well educated and know about some of the psychology going on. But damn I do not have any hope for the next generation raised on tick tocks as the GOP dismantle public education.
It’s going to quickly get like Idiocracy in here all the while bystanders will say, but the parents working two minimum wage jobs to put food on the table and a roof over their head should have taken responsibility for their child!
People fall through the cracks and we all as society benefit when we are responsible enough to try to make sure the cracks can’t just swallow you whole.
Shit, I’ve got 3 university degrees and top certifications for my specify IT field and wouldn’t know much about this topic if it weren’t for Sout Park Freemium Isn’t Free.
We can’t depend on being educated or involved with children to protect them from 24/7 365 always online dopamine addiction to compulsion loops.
Never get your mental health advice from a “technology consultant” especially one that quotes things like the DSM-5 without the required knowledge on how to apply it.
The DSM moves at a glacial pace as does many academic publications as it takes an extremely conservative approach to declaring new disorders. Most of the time it tries to classify things like “gaming addiction” under the general addiction category rather than make a new separate category for a specific form of it. Being addicted to anything including gaming is still a form of addiction and the lack of a specific category for it in the DSM doesn’t mean it magically doesn’t exist.
Tldr: this technology consultant is clueless about stuff outside of his field. Just because it beeps and boops doesn’t make him a mental health expert on the use of it.
The fact that most modern AAA games have some sort of “loot box” (aka actual gambling) mechanic, and those mechanics are literally identical to the design patterns for slot machines, seems to be completely missed by the author of this article. Gambling addition is a real thing, and pushing that psychological behavior pattern onto impressionable youths should be illegal. As a citizen of the US, I can’t legally go online and gamble with real money directly, but I can get the same “fix” by playing most of the big titles from EA (with real money, just one layer deeper, and with no way to get my winnings back into the real world), says a lot.
Absolutely. This isn’t just that kids like games and that’s bad, it’s that games are literally being made with conditioning tactics to get people playing them as a habit and paying. Not only they have loot boxes that are psychologically identical to a slot machine, but games as a service have mission and reward structures designed to get people returning as a habit, not because it’s fun. Look how many games have players going “I need to do my daily missions”, not because that’s fun, but because of a sense of obligation and Fear of Missing Out over trickling rewards.
It’s also worth noting microtransactions and other player-directed revenue-enhancement schemes have been featured in games while still not being noted (even as gambling mechanics — Looking at you, EA lootboxes) by the ESRB, belying its funtion to protect children from adult content.
To this day, AAA games are offered in bad faith as adversarial to the player with the interest of exploiting them.
I’m not sure if the parents angle is the way to address these issues, but then out legal system really gives no fucks about the good of the public, case in point, SCOTUS stripping people of rights while giving corporations extended privileges.
I love it when the title of an article tells me the opinion I’m supposed to have.
The fact is there’s a lot of work that goes into designing games to drive behavior. The article details some of the work that game designers do to induce compulsive behavior, like occasional free gifts to keep people from getting frustrated with certain levels. The article then poopoos this idea by pointing out that heroin addicts never get free heroin from their dealers so this can’t be a real addiction. Wanna learn a fun fact that I know as a recovering addict that y’all don’t know? Your dope dealer will take a short. He’ll sell you a ten dollar bag for five dollars. Not every time, but every once in a while, and for the exact same reason that these games do it: he wants you stuck in, he wants you in his debt in particular and he wants you coming back to him. A sick junkie doesn’t make anyone any money, we mostly just lie in bed and sob. It keeps you in the reward loop, the same as free gifts to get you past frustrating parts of a video game.
The article also acknowledges that gaming addiction is in the DSM, but tries to dismiss that as well based on notes that say further research is needed. Further research is always needed for everything, especially to do with mental health. The fact that it’s in the DSM at all means that, while they may not have found the fire, they can feel heat and smell smoke. The article even concedes that 13 hours of gaming/day indicates that “something is going on here on a psychological level” but because it’s not at the level of an active heroin addiction it’s not worth discussing despite the author’s intuition that “something is going on here” combined with the opinion of the mental health community that, from the article about the DSM linked in this one, “There is neurological research showing similarities in changes in the brain between video gaming and addictive substances.”
I get it. I grew up in the 90s, when video games were new and scary and were gonna make us all smoke crack and shoot up our schools. This harmless hobby of mine was scapegoated into being the cause of so many of society’s ills, and it turned out to be 100% bullshit every time. But this is different. The people who design games are open about the fact that this compulsivity is what they’re designing for. The people who study this sort of behavior have already given the phenomenon a name, they’re studying it and they see it as a growing phenomenon. It’s likely to end up like beer, where there are people who can enjoy it sometimes in a healthy manner and people who can’t. From the psychiatry.org article linked in the OP’s article, it seems to be about 1% of gamers who develop problematic behavior around gaming.
Just chiming in to say that this is a garbage take. Games that are successfully designed to be addicting to adults are fishing with dynamite when it comes to targeting kids whose pre-frontal cortexes are still developing and lack the judgement and self-control to know when enough is enough.
Putting the onus on the parent isn’t fair, either. On one side there’s a massive corporation who employs psychologists to make their product more addicting. On the other side is a parent (or parents) who, yes, at worst are absentee and use screens as babysitters, but a lot of parents I see who struggle with this mean well but just don’t understand this world. They’re younger gen X or older millennials who weren’t into video games growing up, aren’t tech-literate the same way that this writer is, and simply want to help their kids get involved in the same stuff their friends are. They accidentally expose their kids to this greedy machine that wants to consume their every waking moment and thought for profit.
Yeah people really should experience candycrush before laughing something like this off, it’s genuinely addictive.
Okay I understand that kneejerk “Be a good parent” reaction. But IMO that ship has sailed. And the more we tell parents to “be good parents” the more they think that means attending the local book burning.
Also, no sympathy to game publishers that make their games into dopamine casinos. Back in the good old days, video games (like all other media) was an art form, and the profits came from being a good work of art. Now it’s a fucking nightmare capitalist cash cow milking machine (like all other media).
Back in the good old days, video games (like all other media) was an art form
Remember arcades? I love video games, but there’s always been a scummy element pumping out games designed to make cash foremost alongside the actual works of art. There are also still plenty (mostly indie now) of developers making games for the sake of gaming, but the schlock peddlers have gotten very good at their jobs, too.
To be completely fair, in the old days most arcade cabinets were made specifically to “steal” all the quarters you had in your pockets. Still, I’d prefer to play the most difficult\unplayable arcade game instead of any shitty modern mobile game.
Honestly, some people I know are just fish in a barrel compared to some of these mobile game ads. I used to think it was a character flaw, and for most it is. For them I don’t have much sympathy. For a small few, those dopamine casinos are irresistible. It’s a compulsion to play, just like a gambling addiction. These are “The Whales” mobile game companies talk about. They’re the fish in a barrel.
I get the feeling that “Techdirt” may be a bit biased.
Perhaps a tad.
Personally, I don’t much like being told what my conclusion should be from a report. Annoying headline. Unsurprisingly, Timmy goes on to be insufferable throughout the rest of the article too.
